Magnesium Causing Dehydration and Can You Give Suggestion for a Quality Whey Protein Powder

by Anna
(UK)

I've been following your Levaquin protocol for a few days.


Have been taking Mg citrate while I wait for my Angstrom to arrive in post, but am finding it's given me slight dehydration - is that ok as long as i drink enough?
Presume that Angstrom will not give this side effect?

Also with your whey powder, I'm struggling to find one that is organic & doesn't have added calcium, or other things in it. Please can you recommend a brand? I live in the UK but often order stuff from the States.

Many Thanks,

Anna

Comments for Magnesium Causing Dehydration and Can You Give Suggestion for a Quality Whey Protein Powder

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Dehydration?
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Hi Anna,

I moved this from my email box to the forums. I can only answer questions on the forums since it will also help others when they have questions too. This prevents me from answering the same questions over and over.

Dehydration from magnesium? I've never once heard of anyone this has occurred to. Not one. So, I think that you are just simply not drinking enough water. I also, personally, find that when I drink a lot of water and am still thirsty a lot, I start using a lot more salt and seem to retain the water that I do drink much better. I can literally use Tablespoons of salt a day sometimes and it makes me feel better and less thirsty through the day.

But be sure that you are NOT using 'table salt' or 'rock salt' or even 'Kosher Salt' all of which are the chemical NaCL and not 'Salt'. Any salt that you should use should say 'Sea Salt' or 'Himalayan Salt' and should be multicolored and not pure white. Pure white 'table salt' is the processed food equivalent of white flour and should not be consumed by humans. We are intended to eat 'salt', which has dozens or even hundreds of trace minerals and is a 'whole food', and not the chemical compound called 'NaCL' which is what is known as table salt.

You can get Himalayan Pink Salt, which is what I personally use in quite large quantities, at the link above.


As for organic whey from grass fed cows, the only one that I know of is Organic Warrior Whey from Defense Nutrition. I know, good quality whey protein is hard to find. I think that they also have a Buy 5, Get 1 FREE -Organic Warrior Whey deal, which would likely be more economical for you in the UK to offset the shipping costs.


Kerri Knox, RN

Angstrom Magnesium dosage
by: Anna UK

Hi Kerri, My angstrom magnesium has arrived now & the adult dosage on the bottle says 5ml per day. I would like to be aggressive as possible with magnesium as you suggest, so I wondered how many ml is it safe for me to attempt to go up to? I notice in your e-book, that you state 500mg doses up to 1000mg magnesium for other tablet preps, but I wasn't sure how to translate this into the Angstrom dose? Is RDI of 5ml Anstrom equivalent to the RDI of 500mg of other Mg tablets? Am I understanding your e-book correctly that you say to increase dosage up to a max of 1000mg orally, plus transdermal, if your body can take it?

Thanks so much for our time & for answering my previous question. Kind regards, Anna

No equivalent
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Hi Anna,

Unfortunately, there are no 'equivalents' that I know of. You'll just have to start out at whatever lower end dosage is recommended on the bottle and increase (or decrease once you get to a higher dosage) according to how you feel and use the lowest dose that you need in order to feel your best. It's not important how much you get as long as your symptoms are relieved and you still feel well.

Sorry that I don't have a better answer than that, but actually I like the 'going blind' in some ways because it forces you pay more attention to how you feel. Otherwise people get caught up in how much they are taking and not so much how they feel. And how you feel is more important that the dosage that you are taking.

Kerri Knox, RN

Working out mg magnesium
by: Anonymous

Hi Kerri

I've been doing as you suggest following how I feel & I'm currently on 1 teaspoon (5ml) 3 times a day.

The concentration on my bottle of Angstrom says 99.9% magnesium, and also 2000ppm. If I take 5ml, how do I calculate the mg amount? What sum would I need to do?

I'd be really interested to know this for my own knowledge - it's the scientist in me! And when you said Carolyn Dean takes 2800mg daily, I realised there must be a way to calculate the amount even for Angstrom. When you say she takes 4 doses, do you mean 4 teaspoons?

Also as I feel better on 3 teaspoons I may increase to 4? What signs do I look for to stop increasing ie when will I know I've reached the max for me - will it be loose bowel motions?

Many thanks for all your brill advice as always.

Kind regards, Anna

Milligrams per millileters
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Hi Anna,

With the anxiety that I feel coming from you about this, I would say that you are still magnesium deficient. I can't tell how much magnesium you are getting from the information that you've given me. You need to figure out how many MILLIGRAMS are in a certain dosage and then multiply that by the dosage that you are taking.

Saying that it's 99% magnesium or however many parts per million means little and cannot be converted into milligrams. If the bottle does not say how many milligrams are in a particular dosage then I would suggest that you call the company if this is really that important to you.

I do not know if Carolyn Dean was taking 4 teaspoons, tablespoons or whatever. I don't recall and I don't remember exactly which of the many many documents that I have or hers state this.

Again, even if you know how many milligrams you are taking of ANGSTROM magnesium, this does not 'translate' into regular magnesium.

Like I said before, increase your dosage in order to find the lowest dosage that makes you feel the best. If you're taking 3 doses (whatever size those doses are) and you feel 'better', unless you increase your dosage, how do you know that you feel the 'best'?? I can't tell you whether you 'should' or 'should not' do anything. I can't answer questions like that.

Again, anxiety is a sign of magnesium deficiency and you seem overly anxious about this topic which makes me suspect that you are still magnesium deficient. And again, it's up to you to find the dosage that makes you feel 'the best'. I do not know what symptoms YOU might experience that will tell you that you have taken too much. But you will not be feeling 'better' on the higher dose, you will be feeling 'worse', which is why I want you to pay attention to how you feel. You do not need to know specific symptoms in order to know that something makes you feel better or worse.

In fact, this formula is true with anything that you put into your body since many people have food allergies/sensitivities and/or are eating foods that are not right for them. If something you put into your body makes you feel good, then pay attention to that, it's probably good for you even if 'they' say it's not.

Conversely, if you eat something and it doesn't make you feel good then pay attention to that, it may not be good for you despite whether 'they' say it's good for you or not.

I'm sorry that I can't give you better answers then this, but at this point it's up to you and trial and error to find the right dosage for YOU since everyone is different.


Kerri Knox, RN


Kerri Knox, RN

Mg dose
by: Anna

Thanks for your comments Kerri - apologies if i've sent this twice.

I don't feel I'm particularly anxious about the dosage, it's just that in your e-book you were very pedantic about not exceeding an oral dose of 1000mg per day for the standard supplement, which made me consider, like some other people on your forum, what the cut-off point for angstrom was too.

I understand what you mean about not being able to equate the angstrom mg to other supplements, so that's fine. And for my own curiosity i| have emailed the company to find out what the mg amount per 5ml of angstrom is, as they stated on the bottle not to exceed 5ml a day, but I imagine that everyone who's magnesium deficient has to.

Sorry if you felt I repeated myself last time - obviously you are an expert in this field with 15 yrs experience, and I, like most people on this forum I imagine, have just fallen into this situation due to the misfortune of taking cipro on doctor's advice & are still in the process of learning.

But I'm very grateful for all the advice you've given.

I'm currently on 3 teaspoons a day & feel improvement daily. If I understand correctly, in your e-book, you say that once all negative symptoms have disappeared, then reduce magnesium dose to RDI. Is this a gradual process ie once you start feeling 100% on a higher magnesium dose, what's the best way to reduce to RDI safely?

God bless & kind regards

Anna

Never said to reduce to RDI
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Hi Anna,

I've never once said to reduce your dose to RDI. I'm not sure where you get that from. I've repeated twice on this thread to find the LOWEST DOSE THAT MAKES YOU FEEL THE BEST. That may or may not be RDI, and so I also don't know how to help you reduce your dose 'safely', since it's not 'unsafe' to reduce a dose.

Again, just find the lowest dose that YOU feel the best at. That's it. Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be. Learn to sense what dosage is best for you and take it. If I've been 'pedantic' about 1000 milligrams, it's only to cover my ass since their IS a possibility of overdose. But there is NOT a possibility of overdose if you are feeling great from taking it. Regardless of what dose you are taking, you are NOT overdosing or taking too much if you are feeling fine.

Again, don't make this more complex than it needs to be. Take the lowest dose that makes you feel the best, regardless of what that dose is. That's it.



Kerri Knox, RN

Saturating with magnesium
by: Anna

Hi Kerri

It's possible I may have misunderstood something I've read in your e-book so I'll explain what I mean.

It says to maximise magnesium to saturate cells & drive out calcium etc & to do this for at least 3 months to fully saturate (p28 & 29).

So I thought that I stay on the highest dose I feel good on for 3 months to saturate my cells to bring them back to normal. Then after that I'd be able to go back to RDI as a maintenance dose to keep cells healthy.

Please let me know if I've misunderstood.

Sorry if I'm just missing the point - I find it easier to talk to people directly, but I realise it's not possible in a scenario like this.

Also I think it's brilliant that you've gone to the trouble of writing this book to help so many people. Really appreciate your time in answering my questions.

Kind regards, Anna

OK, I understand better
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Hi Anna,

OK, you are making sense as to why you are confused, and taking the higher dosage, as you mention, is a good idea- as long as you are feeling well, then whatever dose that you are taking is safe. That's one of the points that I'm trying to make.

However, saying that it will strictly take 3 months to build up reserves is a generalization. Nothing in physiology is an absolute. Even books that say that the heart is on the left side of the chest, there are people with the heart on the right side. So taking the '3 months' literally, as if that is exactly how long it takes for every single person under every circumstance is incorrect.

Maybe I should be more clear about that, but I was using it more for illustrative purposes than as an absolute. It might take 3 months for most people under ideal situations and assuming that you are taking enough in order to have extra to store. But everyone is different and it may take you 2 months or 6 months. And there's really no way to know whether your tissue reserves are full except that your needs will decrease.

And once your tissue reserves ARE full, how do you know that the RDI is the right dose for you? Maybe you'll need double the RDI in order to meet your needs. Maybe you'll need triple the dose. How did you decide that the RDI is the correct dose for you?

My point being, once your tissue reserves are full, your magnesium needs will naturally decrease and you'll need less to feel right. Then, whatever dose you need as your maintenance dose will be whatever dose you need to feel good. So, in all cases, you'll simply need the correct dose that makes you feel good- and you'll need to determine that simply by sensing this in your body and no other way. There IS NO formula, RDI or otherwise, that can tell you how much magnesium YOU need to take.

As an example, I don't take magnesium at all. But then sometimes if I'm stressed, I'll take tons and tons for a few days and then not take any for months at a time. I just let my body tell me the right dose at all times. I don't take mag every day, but I have it around and take it when I feel I need it.

Hope this helps. :)


Kerri Knox, RN

Many thanks!
by: Anna

Hi Kerri

Thanks so much for trying to explain all that - I suppose it's the main part of your protocol & I wanted to get it right!

Just to clarify a final point - are you saying it may take eg 2 months to feel symptom-free? or are you saying once you find the best dose to feel symptom-free, then keep at that dose for 2 months more?

I'm asking because I've only been on Angstrom for about a week & already many of my symptoms have considerably decreased. If in another week at my best dose I feel symptom-free, I don't stop to find my maitenance dose then, but I continue on the best dose for another 2 months or so?

You've been really lovely & supportive about this whole thing - I realise that you are very busy & so I appreciate every bit of info you send me! I think your protocol is amazing & I'm think it's great that you've given an antidote to this situation for so many.

Yes, I do find the whole self-management of magnesium a bit daunting - I'm used to listening to my body, but I really don't know when to test if my body needs less, without trial & error. I suppose that with angstrom it absorbs so well I don't know what to look out for if I felt worse if I'd taken too much - with the standard supps I got diarrhoes within 2 days so I know they didn't suit me, but with angstrom it's designed to not cause that, so if you were taking more than you needed how would you know - the nausea/diarrhoea wouldn't be there as an indicator, so what to look out for?

Anyway, thanks again for all your advice - I'd be happy to send you a consult fee for your time!

Best wishes, Anna

Just find the dose that makes you feel the best
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Anna,

So, it's really this simple. Just find the dose that makes you feel the best and stay there. That's it. When your tissue levels get 'full', then you'll need less to feel good. That dose may not make you 'symptom free' EVER, so I would not use the term 'symptom free' since you may not get to the point where you are symptom free- especially if symptoms that you are attributing to magnesium deficiency may be due to something else. However, you may feel improvement on the first dose, or it may take weeks to months. But DO experiment to see if higher doses make you feel even better or improve your symptoms more. You will just have to 'play' with the dose that feels best for you.

As far as specific symptoms of feeling 'worse', what if I told you that you could expect to feel tired and lethargic, but YOU get a headache and blurred vision instead? I don't want to tell you what the symptoms of feeling worse are, since yours may be different than what I tell you and then you miss them because you are looking for some specific sensation that I told you to look for. Just pay attention, and if you are overly worried about it, that is a sign that you are probably still magnesium deficient since worry and anxiety is a sign of magnesium deficiency- even if that worry and anxiety seems warranted.

Again, I include the potential for overdose just so that people are aware of it. HOWEVER, overdose is EXTREMELY rare and almost non-existent in those with proper kidney function (and don't start worrying about whether you have proper kidney function or not. If you didn't, you would have a kidney doctor. If you don't have a kidney doctor, then your kidneys work just fine.).

Really, you are making this far too hard. Just take the dosage of magnesium that makes you feel the best. You will know when you need less. I really just cannot give you any more specific instructions than that because everyone is entirely different.


Kerri Knox, RN

Organix
by: Anna

Hi Kerri

Based on how my symptoms have radically reduced in just 4 weeks on your protocol, I feel that, in my case, it's just magnesium deficiency.

But you said some people are never symptom-free - are you referring to mitochondrial conditions? In my family tree I'm not aware of anyone having this, but is the organix profile the test to do to be sure, or is it something else?

This test is very expensive in the UK. So if all symptoms are reversed after saturating my cells on Magnesium, then can I presume it's just Mg deficiency & forego expensive tests?

Or were you referring to anything other than mitochondrial issues?

Many thanks
Anna

Symptom free is symptom free
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Hi Anna,

If you are symptom free just taking magnesium, then there is no need to worry about all these other things possibly being wrong with you and needing more tests.

I wasn't actually referring to ANYTHING talking about being symptom free. You asked if you should keep taking higher doses of magnesium until you are 'Symptom Free'. I made the comment that I did because I don't want people taking higher and higher doses of magnesium because they still have some symptoms, since not all symptoms are due to magnesium deficiency. Maybe they are due to mitochondrial issues, maybe they are due to many many other things. But I just don't want people to think that continuing to take higher and higher doses of magnesium will fix all of their problems since not all their problems are due to magnesium deficiency. That's why I want people to take higher doses of magnesium until they feel their BEST, but not until they are 'symptom free'.

If someone continues to have symptoms after following the protocol carefully, then it may very well be indicated to get an Organix profile. However, my protocol is generally designed to cover most of the problems that most people with Levaquin Tendonitis HAD when they did the Organix Profile, so the idea is that it already covers most things that would be a problem for you anyway. I actually came to the protocol that I did by studying dozens of Organix profiles and treating people based on those profiles.

However, I would not recommend that someone who is now symptom free spend money on an expensive test. By the way, congratulations on your radical improvement. Yeah!!


Kerri Knox, RN

B1 & protein
by: Anna

Hi Kerri

Have been reading Carolyn Dean's Magnesium Miracle book. She suggests that B1 (thiamine) is needed for Mg uptake, but I've only been supplemenmting with B6. Should B1 also be included with Mg, and if so, how many mg daily?

Also, she mentions that a high protein diet can reduce uptake of Mg. I've included organic whey protein in my diet to increase my protein intake daily, so how much protein is the right amount?

Thanks for your help,
Anna

Are you taking a multivitamin as I suggest?
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Hi Anna,

Are you taking a high quality multivitamin as I suggest? If so, that would have enough B1 in it to uptake magnesium as needed. If you are NOT taking a high quality multivitamin and mineral supplement such as Beyond Any Multiple or Jigsaw Health's Essential Daily Packs you need to be. There is a reason why I suggest that you get on a high quality multivitamin, and that is so that you don't have to worry about every vitamin and trace mineral that you may need in order to absorb the next vitamin or trace mineral that you may need.

I think that Caroline Dean is wrong about protein and magnesium. There was a dentist that traveled around the world in the 1920's studying healthy native populations of areas and he basically found that all of these populations were super healthy with no cavities, no impacted wisdom teeth, no chronic illness and no mental illness or depression as long as they did not eat processed foods.

PLENTY of these cultures ate lots of protein and had no problems with poor magnesium levels as evidenced by their strong teeth and bones and good mental health. Stop worrying about that so much, you almost surely need EXTRA protein, which is why I recommend whey protein shakes in my book. I wouldn't be recommending them if they were going to be depleting magnesium.

And again, you want the 'formula' for the exact right amount of protein for you. I can't help you there. You just have to find the right amount that works for you for maximum healing and stable blood sugars. Everyone is different and will need different amounts. There is no one size fits all amount of these nutrients that I can just punch in a number or give you a formula and it will work for you. Again, you'll just have to 'feel' it out.

I personally need a lot of protein and few carbs to feel my best. If I get too much protein, I'll feel sluggish and not digest well. If I don't get enough, then (ironically) I crave sugar since my body is trying to stabilize my blood sugar. I have gone raw vegan several times and I just want sugar, sugar, sugar all the time because my body just simply doesn't do well on the high carbohydrate and low protein levels of a raw vegan diet. However, some people absolutely thrive and feel wonderful on the lower protein levels of a raw vegan diet.

When I eat 'enough' protein, I rarely crave sugar and I feel grounded and balanced and can easily go 4 or 6 hours without feeling hungry and can concentrate and study complex subjects easily. You will just have to find the sensations that signal that YOU are getting 'enough' protein.



Kerri Knox, RN

B1 & protein
by: Anna

Hi Kerri

Thanks for clearing up that up about protein - I do enjoy my protein shakes in the morning!

The only form of magnesium that I can tolerate at higher doses is Angstrom, so I didn't think I could take a multivitamin that contains Mg too. I suppose I could try BAM & reduce my dose of Angstrom if you'd say that was the best course of action? Failing that I could buy a high quality B complex if you could recommend one?

I currently take Angstrom Mg,B6,Se,E,ALA,omega3,
BioRG,spirulina,probiotics, B12, milk thistle, CoQ10 in an organic wholefood gluten-free diet. I only consume a small amount of Ca rich food daily, (until Mg has saturated cells).

Should I be avoiding yeast also or is this irrelevant to Mg absorption?

Thankyou for your help,
Anna

No need for a multi
by: Kerri Knox, RN- The Immune Queen!

Hi Anna,

It seems like your regimen is varied enough that I wouldn't bother adding a multi as long as you seem to be feeling well. The spirulina is a good substitute for a multi. And since you are taking extra B6, I don't think that you'll need a B complex since the spirulina is pretty good for the B vitamins too, especially since your eating a good clean diet.

If you are feeling well, then I wouldn't really change anything based on just reading something. How you feel is a better indicator of what you need. Like the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Do they say that in the UK?

Anyway, avoiding yeast is good if you seem to have symptoms of candida, but not necessary for magnesium absorption.


Kerri Knox, RN

magnesium/thirst
by: Anonymous

well you are hearing it from another person: ever since i began using epsom salt oil (dr. teal) which is wonderfully relaxing & helps my insomnia, i am dying of thirst. really.
& i don't put salt on food. i eat a pretty bland diet (on purpose) & have been doing so for quite a while.
this--the magnesium--is the only difference.
strange.

No salt? Why?
by: Kerri Knox, RN, The Immune Queen

You said, "i don't put salt on food. i eat a pretty bland diet (on purpose) & have been doing so for quite a while."

That would be very LIKELY to make you thirsty. In fact, if you start eating salt, you may feel a lot better and not be so thirsty.

Salt (sea salt, not table salt) helps us hold onto water in the cells of our body rather than to let it go out in our urine. Salt is especially important for those with adrenal fatigue as they tend to use up a lot of salt and need a lot more.

I have experienced this many times that when I'm thirsty all of the time and my thirst can't be quenched by water, it means that I need salt! Lots of it.

And I have another client who had been spending almost a thousand dollars on tests and supplements every couple of months for hormones, amino acids, etc.. I got her on salt and she feels better than she has in a long time!

If you're thirsty, take salt. That is almost certainly the problem. Why magnesium would trigger that? I don't know. But it could also just be temporally related, but not causally related. Meaning that the timing of the magnesium could just be coincidental. Or the magnesium triggered an imbalance of electrolytes that made you need more salt.

And in fact, taking magnesium can reduce sodium levels. Here is a study.

Effects of magnesium on blood pressure and intracellular ion levels of Brazilian hypertensive patients. and read where it says, "After 2 weeks of magnesium supplementation, the plasma level of Na+ [sodium] was reduced significantly".

and in this study

Effects of magnesium on blood pressure and intracellular ion levels of Brazilian hypertensive patients where it says, "The diminution of the blood pressure correlated positively with the reduction in intraerythrocyte sodium after magnesium. "


This seems especially true in those with adrenal fatigue. So, that you are feeling thirsty after taking magnesium could correlate to having adrenal fatigue.

Magnesium can cause you to be thirsty!
by: Anonymous

I have been relieved from major back pain thanks to magnesium. However, it does draw water out of y

our system and will cause you to feel more thirsty. Also, you can OD on magnesium. I found after pain/inflammation goes away I need to back off my intake. If I throw up or feel nausea I know it is too much. The pain I was experiencing was tremendous, otherwise it would be annoying to have stomach issues.

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